Three Things

We’re on imminent lockdown here in London. There are three things we won’t run out of which I’ve previously mentioned on here..

Smol. Laundry capsules that arrive in the post automatically every few weeks. They arrive when I need them, you just need one or two capsules in your wash. They don’t have referral codes, so head over to them, they do trial size packs and when you can’t get to the shop and need to wash things maybe you’ll be glad you have some in your cupboard.

smol laundry capsules

Splosh. Cleaning all around the house. Just over a month ago I accidentally ordered too many hand wash refills. A month later and we’re getting through them a lot quicker than we previously had for obvious reasons. You keep the plastic container, top it up with warm water to the mark on the bottle, then add from the Splosh refill packet. Job done. Splosh refill packet is empty, post it back to them where it gets recycled. We use Splosh for handwash, shower gel, bathroom spray, kitchen spray, glass cleaner, laundry powder (because it smells SO good), toilet cleaner and washing up liquid. There is a lot of choice and you can take out subscriptions now, getting an automatic redelivery at the time of your choosing.
I do have a Splosh referral code – WDECMRLM96 – you save 15% and I get £3 off my next order.

Splosh cleaning products, Washing up liquid, toilet cleaner, bathroom cleaner and kitchen cleaner

Who Gives a Crap. Currently not taking on new subscriptions but supplying existing ones when their next delivery is due. When I started doing subscriptions of various things, toilet rolls was quite near the top of the list. I don’t know why – I mean, it’s not like it wasn’t something easy to buy. I do like that each roll is wrapped in paper rather than plastic, and once you’ve cut out the WGAC parts the patterns come in quite handy for crafts at Brownies too. Oh, and money goes towards toilets being built in countries that need them, so it’s loo roll with a conscience.
For £40 every few months I get an enormous box full of toilet rolls which lasts for 5-6 months (I go for the bamboo ones these days). Smooth! Here’s a link to my referral code – https://www.talkable.com/x/bVzSyO

Who Gives a Crap 48 rolls delivery in a box, pretty wrapped toilet paper

If I was able to book my usual weekly slot with Ocado then things would be just fine. Up until recently I’ve quite enjoyed quiet weekends at home not doing much, not getting outdoors. Of course the weather has now changed and I’m desperate to get outside.

So these things aren’t going to change the world. But they can arrive at your front door with little or no bother. I like things coming to me rather than me having to get them. Every little bit helps, and let’s face it, we need clean homes, clothes and hands right now.

Why Being Perimenopausal is Really Irritating

I’m comfortably in that very late 40s perimenopausal stage of life, with all the things that are bundled up with it. It’s not fun.

You’re fast asleep, happy in the land of nod when suddenly you are dripping with sweat. You have to wake up, open the windows and get to the toilet to run some cold water on your hands. Anything to make it feel better. You go back to bed and immediately it is too hot. So you kick off the covers and lie on top. But then you’re too cold. So you go back under the covers and you’re too hot.

Repeat to fade for the next four hours…

Or how about during the day? You’re boiling, a little desk fan to keep you cool which mostly works. However, every now and then something gets to you. Something very little but before you know it your face is bright red, your upper body is on fire. Your face a delightful shade of beetroot and it won’t go away.

Welcome to hot flashes. They come when you least expect them and are quite the inconvenience. You’ll almost certainly start experiencing them when you’re perimenopausal.

So many businesses are making moisture wicking pyjamas which help. Alas the kind of money most of them cost, it’s too much to try it out to know it works. However, I’ve spotted M&S have a range which seem reasonably priced. Uniqlo do their Airism range too which look like they might be helpful during the day.

I’ve also heard taking black cohosh or sage can help perimenopausal symptoms like hot flashes. I’ve ordered some from Amazon (affiliate link) which I’m hoping will work.

A poor night’s sleep leads to a bad day in the office trying to remember what you’re doing – oh the brain fog. The obvious solution here would be a nice strong coffee, BUT; you should really avoid too much caffeine if you’re experiencing hot flashes.

I’ve cut most caffeine out of my life and mostly drink decaf now. Our local cafe CyCo in Coulsdon do an amazing decaf which tastes as good as the real thing. Keeping hydrated is the most important thing for me. I drink plenty of water throughout the day.

I’ve also read a good Vitamin E supplement can help, although that’s on the pricey side. I’m keeping with the black cohosh for now.

The perimenopause is the stage of life when you get these symptoms (and a bazillion more), but your periods haven’t stopped. When you’ve had no periods for a year you’re classed as in menopause.

Harry Potter Goodies at Paladone

We were invited to review a selection of Harry Potter goodies at Paladone. Now, when you have a Potter-mad daughter you want to make sure that what you choose is sensible but fun. I decided I should choose gifts based on the kind of things she goes for when she spots a Harry Potter section in stores; namely, writing things, sorting hat related things and general cool things.

Harry Potter goodies at Paladone start with the basics; a simple writing set which looks a bit like your letter to Hogwarts. We had seen this recently and thought about buying it for H but the price had put us off. At Paladone it was a lot cheaper for exactly the same thing. Sometimes it helps to shop around to save a few pennies.

You get twenty sheets of paper, ten envelopes and ten stickers in each pack.

Harry Potter Letter Writing Set

When it arrived H’s first words were “Oh my GOD! COOL!” so now we’re encouraging her to write her friends letters like she promised. After all, doesn’t every ten year old child want to get a letter from Hogwarts; just in case it’s an invite?

Harry Potter Hogwarts Colour change coaster showing all stages of colour change.

I had never seen our next choice anywhere before, and liked the fun element of it – four colour change coasters. You pop your warm mug on the coaster and it changes to one of the houses. So my little Hufflepuff happily plonked a cup on hers and waited excitedly to see which house she had chosen. Slytherin. Whoops. It didn’t go so well – though she soon sussed that as there were just four coasters each one had a different house on it. Depending on how seriously your child might take it, this is one to consider – she’s taking it back to show family and find out which house they’re in for half term. Now she’s over her Slytherin shock she’s enjoying them again, and has also made sure she warms each one a little bit before choosing hers.

Paladone itself has lots of different themes of things to buy. What I liked about the Harry Potter goodies was that there is a lot of choice; often things that you may not have seen in shops before. We’ve been to plenty of shops too…

Harry Potter Potion no 86 colour light in green

Now H is ten her bedroom is moving from that of a young girl into one of a tween/young lady. We still have our beloved Miffy pictures on the walls; slowly the rest of the space has Harry Potter merchandise on it. When I spotted the Potion Bottle light I knew it would fit in with her room; and make a great night light too. Her room gets pretty dark at night, though you do need a bit of light to avoid the Lego on the floor. The Potion Bottle light does the trick. It comes with a cable but no plug, though any USB plug will work. We have it positioned on her bookcase where the room has a nice low glow but not too much to stop her sleeping.

At Paladone there are gifts to suit all price ranges, from pocket money to the more pricey.

We were gifted £30 worth of Harry Potter goodies at Paladone and spent that money easily. The prices were good and there was a lot of choice. Out of stock items are clearly marked as well. All in all, we have one very delighted ten year old with a load of new Harry Potter goodies – it’s a win-win for everyone!

That Time We Bought a Tent.

So we got back from a week in Dorset, having stayed in a holiday cottage and a gypsy caravan (cramped, small, creaky). We decided to stop at Go Outdoors on the way home – and it became That Time We Bought a Tent.

That time we bought a tent, we headed to Go Outdoors in Poole. One of our Brownie leaders had done similarly recently, and confirmed that you can join the Go Outdoors membership scheme AND get the most from your Girlguiding discount. So I spent a lot of time browsing.

Go Outdoors has a few branches dotted around the country, so Poole was our destination. Smelly, tired and in need of a good shower and toilet, that was us. I think we looked the part, like we had already been camping. We definitely smelt it! Go Outdoors had exactly what we needed.

Tents on display. Big ones, small ones, wide ones, ones that looked too big. Ones that were definitely way too small. This was the city of tents, the place you can go inside and see whether the tent is for you. Fortunately in my super-tired state of mind they also included the price if you’re a member there (£5 a year, 10% discount on everything). So all I had to do was include my Girlguiding 15%.

We had a lot of extras already like sleeping bags and blow up mattresses, our additional costs were camping essentials like a gas stove and cutlery.

Zenobia 6 tent without the porch, pitched in back garden for idea of size. Bought a tent.

We opted for the Hi-Gear Zenobia Eclipse 6 as it had really good reviews. Plus it has lots of space. While we always try to pack light we never quite do, so space to spread things out was important. Every review mentioned the tent hasn’t leaked either which is a bonus with our unpredictable weather.

My favourite feature was the bedrooms having a blackout element. I get woken up by light coming into my sleeping area, so anything that blocks it is a good thing. Shaun’s was having lots of pockets inside the tent to put things like our toothbrushes (which we then forgot where they were as there are a LOT of pockets!). H just loved having a tent and her own room.

Inside the Zenobia 6 tent during daylight from the bedroom (blackout) area. Gives an idea of space and also the darkness. Bought a tent.

There’s also the logic in putting a tent up. You put the poles in and pin it appropriately and that’s that, right? Which seemed to work for this tent. It probably took us around half an hour to get the tent up, with additional time to set up each bedroom. Someone pointed out to us they never bother removing those bits as they’re all packed together anyway.

A six man tent seemed a lot though. As we had blow up mattresses already, we soon found out that two of those alongside each other took up most of the space. Actually our tent was really a four man tent (for us). Roll mats will definitely make it suitable for six people.

Zenobia Eclipse 6 tent with porch on campsite. Bought a tent.

The final part of our tent was the separate porch. We couldn’t work out if it was important or not, but at £99 with the GG discount to be applied it felt like it wasn’t breaking the bank. As our first proper camping trip would show, it was definitely a good purchase. Cooking in the rain while being sheltered is a good thing – and we weren’t the only ones. Everyone does it. A porch is definitely the right thing to get.

The porch didn’t reach the floor so we removed the front door and used it as an outside space rather than an extension of the tent.

Cooking on a gas stove in the porch area of the Zenobia 6 Eclipse tent. Bought a tent

As we were on our way home from holiday, the car was full. There was no way it would fit in our little Skoda Fabia, so we decided to go to the nearest Go Outdoors the following day in Tonbridge. It takes up almost all the boot space with the porch and additional carpet – but it’s worth it. So much so, that night H and I camped outside (it’s noisy in London, I didn’t enjoy it); then we all went off camping in Sussex/Kent the following day!

So that’s our ‘That time we bought a tent’ story. It just happened, but I think we had reached the end of our tether spending around £100 for so-called ‘glamping’ options. Now we can take our own tent, less stuff, spend £20 a night instead and we only have ourselves to blame if anything goes wrong!

I think it ticks something off the bucket list too.

Happy Yellow Spring Clothes from Rydale Clothing

Our lovely British weather is all over the place as usual. I’m never sure whether to wear a coat or not, whether it will rain or not and will I be warm or not. Even in June.
When I was given the chance to review something from Ryedale Clothing, I went for their lightweight rain jacket because it fitted everything I didn’t have in a coat and it’s a really nice, bright, yellow.

Ryedale Clothing are based in North Yorkshire. I’m a North Yorkshire lass so know the names of the places that a lot of the items of clothing are named after. The North Yorkshire Moors are my favourite place in the whole of the UK. This immediately made me keen to see what Rydale Clothing offers.

I opted for the Cayton II Toggle Jacket (currently on sale for £35) as it ticked a lot of boxes for me. The main one is being long – I’m tall. I want a waterproof coat that looks good and covers my bum. Even better if I can sit down on it while out and about. I sit between a 16-18 depending on the clothes, so went with a size 16 which is just right.

I didn’t take it to our Brownie camp at PGL as I saw we were due several warm days – the jacket is great for showery days – but did have it for our trip to Littlehampton straight afterwards. It was perfect for the weather – sunny spells and showers; paddling in the sea or wandering around.

My jacket is warm when it needs to be, cool when the weather warmed up. When it got really warm it was easy enough to tuck it into a bag without it using up too much space.

at Mewsbrook Park with H. I’m wearing what I call my menopause trousers – Next have started to do in-between sizes and as my body grows into its final shape these fit me perfectly and go really well with my Ryedale Clothing jacket.

The pockets are just the right size; I won’t be putting keys in there as they’re a fabric lining and I’m sure the keys would rip it.

The length is perfect for me – I’ve worn the jacket on many different occasions now.

Also, the colour; yellow is a departure from my usual sensible choices, but it’s a good one. I’ve had several people ask “ooh is it from Seasalt?” to which I’ve been able to point them in Ryedale Clothing’s direction. I love the lining which has little sailboats dotted all over. I’m not picking up any extra mucky stains on there which is good too.

In fact, I’ve had so many lovely positive comments about my coat that I’ve felt really happy wearing it. You can too – it’s over here.

I was sent the Ryedale Clothing jacket for review, all opinions are my own.

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SSE Women’s FA Cup Final 2019 – Man City v West Ham

It is now the fifth year of the Women’s FA Cup Final at Wembley, and we’ve been to all five. Things have changed, though it is still a fun, affordable day out.

The Women’s FA Cup Final 2019 was on Saturday 4th May 2019. We travelled to Wembley to soak in the atmosphere. Having gone all the other times we knew there would be lots of things to do outside, maybe a chance to meet a player or two and maybe some things to have a look at, just like the previous years.

The Women’s FA Cup Final 2019 was between Manchester City and West Ham United – both Women’s Super League clubs. It was West Ham’s first time in the final, but Man City were always the favourites.

Women's FA Cup Final 2019 - Wembley's a building site

So it was a bit heartbreaking to arrive at Wembley and find it currently resembles a building site. The pre-match entertainment was at a minimum too, the SSE Wildcats Funzone had three things to do. In the past I would have said allow a couple of hours to hang around Wembley. Could it be that those days are over? We got through the entertainment in a very short time.

There was no mention of the upcoming Women’s World Cup, other than advertisements for the game in Brighton next month. This would have been the perfect time to tie it in with something.

It felt like it was more about overpriced food and drink, unfortunately. Wembley publicised an event at Wembley Boxpark. That seemed to be a giant pub with a stage. I asked if anything was happening and was told “we’re showing the game” (umm…. we’re at the game?!) so we didn’t stick around.

Wembley - Bobby Moore statue taken at the Women's FA Cup Final 2019

Outside Wembley you need to allow more time now as well. There is a bag restriction; so nothing larger than A4 sized (so don’t bother shopping in the Wembley Outlet beforehand; although they have a Haribo shop). Then there are the queues. We were eventually routed from the main Club Wembley entrance to the Bobby Moore entrance, and got to our block. We had great views and lovely comfy padded seats too.

Women's FA Cup Final 2019

As neutrals (as usual), we watched the game cheering for football. This year’s attendance wasn’t as high as last year, but it still felt like there were more people there. Having said that, behind the goal nearest to us there were a lot of empty seats; lesser so the Man City end.

The elusive goal happened in the second half, and there was relief on our side – it was a good game, and it was great to see the players, but if things had gone into extra time it could have ended up being a long night. As it was, I commented to Shaun that I was sure the last couple of games ended up being won by a single goal – and Man City took that (I’m sure) as some kind of psychic command to score another couple! The game ended 3-0, Man City were presented with the FA Cup, and everyone left easily. Especially the West Ham Supporters who left pretty quickly, no longer blowing bubbles.

The Women’s FA Cup Final has become part of our annual routine, and so much of that was the build up. Maybe they couldn’t do as much because Wembley is a building site, and will soon disappear behind tower blocks. It’s a shame, I always enjoyed getting face paints, even the cardboard clapping things from last year were a nice touch. There were feeble attempts in the crowd at mexican waves, but the heart there this year.

We’ll still go – at only £7.50 for adults and kids going free it’s a great reasonable day out. I say reasonable as once you’re inside you’re paying Wembley prices. How much food or drink can you fit into an A4 bag? (answer: packs of Haribo and a bread roll, pretty much). The 2019 Women’s FA Cup Final cost us the grand total of £15 for the three of us so we can’t complain.

We had an added bonus of being sat by the boxes which Phil Neville (England Women’s Manager) and Kelly Smith (ex Arsenal Ladies) were sat, so H got a couple more autographs. Within the SSE Wildcats Funzone there was the chance to have photobooth photos taken, and the chance to score a goal and measure the speed. They also had a small unattended stand where you could make a small paper banner.

The 2019 Women’s FA Cup Final game itself was great, don’t get me wrong. That’s why we’ll always go back. It was great seeing West Ham there rather than the usual teams – and maybe one year Tottenham Women will get their chance too. That’s the beauty of the FA Cup. You never know who it will be from year to year, so there are always surprises along the way.

Women's FA Cup Final 2019 banner

2018’s review is here.

Football, in Particular, Women’s Football

Things have changed so much in women’s football over the last year. Was it really this time last year H was doing Wildcats football sessions every week? Those stopped. You only get funding from SSE for a certain amount of time, so our popular sessions were pulled and moved further away; so we stopped because it was too far.

Wembley Stadium Women's FA Cup Final 2016 seats

Fortunately sessions with our same coach started up the road at Whyteleafe, and a few of us parents who stayed in touch came back. When you’re looking for a session and don’t necessarily want to be too competitive, it isn’t easy. There isn’t a huge amount here, but there are groups.

Then, before you know it, it’s that time of year again – the SSE Women’s FA Cup Final. This year we have Manchester City vs West Ham. Now, obviously were this the men’s team I’d have a problem cheering for either team, but this is the women and so we’ll go along, enjoy a game of football and cheer everyone. Football is funny like that. (it also doesn’t help that West Ham beat Tottenham yesterday)

Wembley Stadium SSE giant sponge hands, football, Women's FA Cup Final 2015

We have our tickets and we’re going in a group from our Saturday football group which is brilliant. It’s something I’ve always wanted. I like doing things in a group and being with friends; we haven’t really had a group of our regular friends who enjoy going to games. I’m hoping that they’ll have special events on like last year, when H got to meet Lionesses Fara Williams and Mary Earp.

H with Fara Williams and Mary Earp

It’s the fifth year at Wembley, and we’ve been to all of them. It’s a fantastic day, kids go free and adults are at the ridiculously low price of £15. I did a group booking and got tickets at £7.50 each.

I’m hoping the weather holds up now!

Then there’s Tottenham Women – rebranded this week from Spurs Ladies (hurrah! about time too) who are on the verge of gaining promotion to the Women’s Super League. We’ve had a great season across both Tottenham teams; I can only hope that the women get to play at the new White Hart Lane stadium sometime soon.

Tottenham women in their play off match vs Blackburn Rovers when they won and gained promotion to the Women's Championship.

If Tottenham do go up then we’ll be able to watch them more often. We have Chelsea and Brighton within a drive-able distance. We’ve seen them play a few times now, H got to meet the players when they played against Crystal Palace.

I’m still unsure if the money aspect of it all is too soon. Clubs like Yeovil Town who have a strong women’s team are struggling and can’t rely on support from the men’s club. Whereas teams like Manchester United bought their way back into the Women’s league because of theirs. It doesn’t seem right, though encouragingly there aren’t relegations happening this season to expand the leagues.

The next few years are going to be interesting….

Hi.

Crikey, I haven’t posted for two months. There’s a lot to say, just no time to say it. I’m not going anywhere any time soon, just slowing down with life because there’s too much to fit in.

I’ve renewed the Mum Friendly domain for another three years. Not going anywhere – okay?

I have things lined up to be reviewed – books, clothes and more.

I took out an Art Pass subscription this year to replace our Historic Houses Association one which lapsed, so we’ve already visited places I want to share.

We have books and clothes to review and we’re still working with the lovely Stamptastic. I’ll be doing a review on their blog; seven years in and I finally had to buy a new ink pad (but I made sure H’s school was signed up in their PTA deal).

Then there’s Brexit. We went to the Put it to the People march, I’ve written about it and posted it retrospectively today. That seems to be my pattern so far this year, writing but not posting.

There’s also all the extra activities we do every night. Brownies, obviously. As H heads into her last term at Brownies, she earned her Gold badge; the highest Brownie award you can get. She was the first girl in our Division to do so – she was really proud, as was I. She already attends a Guide unit locally (which I help at, of course) where she’s a mini-Guide until she moves up in September. Oh, and I gained my Brownie Leader Qualification too.

We’re still going to football on a Saturday at Whyteleafe FC. Crystal Palace pulled our local girls Wildcats group. They opened a new one but it was too far; navigating the A23 on a Saturday morning is never fun so we gave up. Whyteleafe is only ten minutes up the road, not far from where our old Caterham sessions were. It goes without saying we’ve bought tickets for the Women’s FA Cup Final for the fifth year running; this time in a group with parents from our football group.

So yes, still here. Still doing everything in the few hours we have to do stuff. Just checking in.

We Marched for a People’s Vote

On 23rd March 2019 we marched in Central London for the People’s Vote.

The People’s Vote is a campaign behind getting the Government to break themselves out of the deadlock they find themselves in (read : stubborn Prime Minister who doesn’t seem to listen to anyone), and put the final vote about Brexit back to the people.

People's Vote March in London, 2019

The area we live in voted for Remain by a fairly large margin. We’re represented by a backbench Conservative MP who votes with the Government. Already politics is not speaking to or representing me. In turn, this means he’s not representing H either.

People's Vote 2019 Gove Will Tear Us Apart

So we marched. Well, we walked at a slow, steady pace from Green Park to Downing Street.

We ended up right outside Downing Street in time to hear Sandi Toksvig introduce Anna Soubry (who we couldn’t hear). We were in time to hear David Lammy, Nicola Sturgeon, Jess Phillips and so many others. So many great speakers. The politician who resonated the most with H was Jo Swinson (with her baby) who thanked all the children for being there. Because it’s their future and they can’t do anything about it.

Jo Swinson Put it to the People March 2019

It was a good, safe place for a nine year old to be and to be a part of something. It might all come to nothing, but it might make a difference. Already the Prime Minister has made remarks about the march which are putting it down, saying it doesn’t matter. Two million people would disagree, Theresa.

Jess Phillips Put it to the People March

Everyone was so friendly. So many older folks saying they were marching “for her” (H) because they know it’s her future too.

Nicola Sturgeon Put it to the People March

So we did something. We were a part of something, we saw brilliant placards, we heard brilliant speeches, we were there.

If it doesn’t make a difference we tried our best. But if it does make a difference we were a part of it.

I voted to remain, I didn’t vote for the mess this country is currently in. It seems to me this is more about holding a political party I could never vote for together, than the interests of the people living in the country. The EU isn’t perfect, but changes come from within – not outside.

Dragons : Dawn of New Riders Nintendo Switch game

We were sent a code to review Dragons : Dawn of New Riders Nintendo Switch game, a game from the How to Train Your Dragon franchise.

Dragons Dawn of New Riders formats available to buy

Dragons : Dawn of New Riders is a new game from Outright Games, based on the popular How to Train Your Dragon series. We haven’t seen the new film yet, though H knows the series well.

The game was easy to set up and install; once we got started it was learning what each button on the console does. There’s a lot to think about, although H picked it up way faster than I did!

You control two new characters, Patch and Scribbler. Scribbler is a scholar who cannot remember his past, and Patch is a different kind of dragon, a ‘chimeragon’ who has powers which are different to that of the average dragon.

Dragons Dawn of New Riders gameplay

They have new islands to explore, battles to fight and things to find to complete the adventure. Using their skills they pick up treasures along the way such as armour and herbs to make potions; so they’re well again after a particularly brutal attack or two.

There’s also the ability to swap between characters. There are some things that Scribbler can’t do, but with Patch having different powers, there are things which solve problems. Think along the lines of there being an obstacle and a bit of team work in resolving what needs doing and you’re getting close to the feel of Dragons : Dawn of New Riders.

Dragons Dawn of New Riders gameplay

The ultimate goal is to recover Scribbler’s lost memories.

The battles are quite fierce too and quite take it out of you! Fortunately as you go along you can smash barrels and plants which allow you to pick up herbs which can be made into potions. However, some battles are difficult, so you need to think about what you have and whether you might need help from Patch.

The game features familiar locations such as Havenholme, Blood Briar Island and Valka’s Mountain. There’s a lot to cover, so plenty to play with.

Dragons Dawn of New Riders - screenshot

If you lose all your lives you restart in the area you lost your life with a newly replenished supply of ‘life up’ potion (H’s name). We’re currently in battle trying to defeat and outwit a giant dragon which isn’t easy. We can’t seem to defeat him though H is the closest. We like a challenge!

Dragons Dawn of New Riders dragon battle

Overall we’ve found Dragons : Dawn of New Riders a fun game to play. It has enough challenges to keep nine year old H happy; she’s not frustrated when things don’t go her way (usually battles).

Dragons : Dawn of New Riders comes from Outright Games. It is out now on Nintendo Switch, XBox, PS4 and PC. Amazon link here (affiliate link). We were sent a code for the purpose of review, all opinions are our own.

I suspect if you visit Shrek’s Adventure there may be lots of Dragons themed characters on display there to tie in with this too.